From Hate to Leadership: Greg Thomas on Being a Black Quarterback, Mental Toughness & Adversity | Hoops & Headspace

What does it take to lead when the world is against you?

In this powerful episode of Hoops & Headspace, host Jada Rich sits down with Greg Thomas — former quarterback and one of the first Black quarterbacks at the University of Arkansas — to unpack a story of resilience, leadership, and mental toughness that every athlete and competitor needs to hear.

From facing racism and adversity on and off the field to becoming a leader through preparation and belief, Greg shares real, unfiltered lessons about what it truly means to compete — not just in sports, but in life.

If you’re an athlete, coach, or someone chasing greatness, this episode will challenge your mindset and elevate your perspective.

🎯 WHAT YOU’LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE:

•  The reality of being a Black quarterback in college football 
•  How mental health impacts athlete performance
•  Why confidence and belief are everything in sports 
•  The importance of preparation, accountability, and discipline
•  How words, pressure, and social media affect today’s athletes 
•  What separates great leaders from just talented players 

💬 POWERFUL MOMENTS:

“Words cut deeper than sticks and stones.”
 “Accountability is the foundation of success.”
 “If you don’t believe in yourself, nobody else will.”

⏱️ CHAPTERS:

00:00 Introduction to Greg Thomas
 02:46 Early Sports Journey and Influences
 04:40 Realizing Opportunities in Sports
 07:57 Leadership Lessons from Multi-Sport Participation
 10:52 Challenges of Being a Black Quarterback
 13:44 Navigating Racial Dynamics in College Football
 17:37 Reflections on Support and Resilience
 21:59 Legacy and Impact of Sports on Life
 24:54 Mental Preparation and Leadership Traits
 30:20 The Reality of Athletic Transition
 33:22 The Impact of Money in Sports
 34:18 Mentorship and Coaching Philosophy
 36:57 Challenges of Modern Athletes
 41:57 Mental Health in Sports
 44:54 Belief and Team Culture
 46:42 Life Lessons from Sports
 47:27 Advice for Young Athletes
 51:56 Celebrating Achievements and Future Goals

📚 RESOURCES & LINKS:

👉 Greg Thomas Books: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=greg+thomas

👉 Greg Thomas Website: https://gregthomasconnect.com

🎙️ Hoops & Headspace Podcast:
 👉 https://linktr.ee/hoopsandheadspacepodcast

Keywords:

sports leadership, mental health in sports, athlete mindset, resilience, Black quarterbacks, athlete development, confidence in sports, leadership mindset,

Transcript

0:00

If you're an athlete dealing with pressure, self-doubt, or trying to stay confident through the ups and downs of sports, this episode is for you. Here on Hoops and Headspace, we go beyond the game to talk about what athletes face mentally on and off the court. In today's episode, we'll be talking about pressure that follows athletes off the field, the reality of mental health in competitive sports, leadership, accountability, and building resilience, and what it really takes to develop strong-minded athletes in today's world. Let's get into it. If you don't believe in yourself, nobody else will. I became the quarterback because I wasn't the best player on the team. You can't, you never get used to being threatened. You never get used to people slashing your tires or egging your car. The real world is competitive. Sometimes words cut way deeper and you don't see that healing process. You got to believe in something before you... Just go out there. Welcome to Hoops and Headspace, the podcast where mental health and sports intersect. I'm your host, Jada Rich. We do have an amazing guest with us today. uh His name is Greg Thomas, and he's going to take a moment right here and talk his talk and let y'all know who he is, where he's all that good stuff. So go ahead and let him know. How you doing? My name is Greg Thomas. Thank you for having me on your show. I am a 29 year veteran with a high school education. I'm also an assistant basketball coach by which a few years ago or two years ago exactly we were 40 and oh one state championship here in the state of Texas in the highest classification. The mental aspect of it. also a counselor and at risk counselor to say and I'm like I said, I'm from Texas from San Angelo, Texas. I now reside in the suburb outside of Dallas. Okay. I liked it. I liked it. Well, yes ma'am. I'm there with you and hopefully this voice that God gave me can bring people in because it's pretty nice. There we go. So when did your journey with sports begin? As an elementary youngster uh within a community there in San Angelo, we lived in the Blackshire Heights area. My father was a high school coach. He was then later became a state championship coach and then a high school principal. My older brother who was 16 years older became my first coach. And so in the third grade, we started playing like gray white football, basketball, running track, et cetera. I was a country boy. know, anything not to be working outside and in that hot, in the hot area, we play ball. So that was our escape. When did you realize that sports were open doors for you in the future? I believe it was my sophomore year in high school in the spring. uh During spring football, a coach from Rice University walked up and handed me a card. in my ignorance of what followed high school was strange. I ran home, said, hey dad, this coach gave me this card. Rice University, he asked me to... thinking about coming and visiting. And my father said, well, where's Rice? And I was so ignorant, because I didn't know. I didn't know about playing college ball or had any thoughts about playing college ball. So he sent me to our little bookshelf where we had a bunch of Britannicas. That's that old encyclopedias. And I looked at Rice University and found that it was in Houston. And a couple of weeks later, had a couple of other coaches. uh from California, from USC, from Colorado gave me cards also. I then it started to click a little bit. Hey, you know, maybe there's something to this. Okay. Um, and like I said, you play multiple sports and we've had other coaches come on that actually encourage athletes to play multiple sports. It's necessary. I mean, everyone's trying to be a one dimensional now and play one sport. And actually it hurts the athlete. We encourage it here as long as we share this players. You understand that? So because everyone wants to hold on to everyone, but it helps in the individual, athletically, uh physically ah helps you see the game better. It helps your body recuperate and you learn to do different things, see different things and respond differently when you play more sports than one. ah And how did they help shape you as a leader? Like you playing all those sports and learning all those things. It helped me because let me go back. I became a quarterback not because I was the best player on the team. I became the quarterback because I wasn't the best player on the team. We have better running backs. We have better guys that can catch the ball. And that's when my brother had positioned those players. Okay. If Donald Gene is a better catcher of the ball then. then Greg is in great don't need to catch the ball. Let me put down on here. Derek is the best running back or Thomas the best running back. We're going to put those guys in the backfield. And so I ended up playing the quarterback position because I wasn't the best of the five guys on the team which helped me learn those other positions as well. And so being a leader and being in that quarterback position, I learned every everyone's position. I learned where they were supposed to go, how they were supposed to go, learn where the plays were. I could see the holes and then when I get the opportunity to play in those other positions, then it became easier to dominate, let's say that. That was the easiest part. So. So when you did become their quarterback and you said you felt like you were in that position because you couldn't fit the other ones, when did you begin to embrace the responsibility of being a leader, being their quarterback? I will say about the seventh or eighth grade. And know, in grade school, you just better athletes and you just play and you have fun. And the team that I was playing with, with the group of guys on my team, we were very successful in the third, fourth, fifth and sixth grade. I mean, we won like 50 something games, won the city championship and three of those four years. um Then you grow up and then you learn that there are different elements to playing the game. So in basketball, you play the point guard. He's not necessarily gonna be the tallest or the fastest, but he has the ball in his hands at all times. When you're playing baseball, I play baseball pretty good at that too. I play catcher, where I always had the ball in my hand, even though I may not be in that main player as a pitcher or the shortstop who's the best player on the team. So I had to learn those other positions. And then with that comes some form of leadership, some form of accountability. some form of being the extension of the coach. And I enjoyed that. I enjoyed if I couldn't score, get the ball to somebody to score. If I couldn't hit the ball or bat the ball, at least I get to call the pitches and be a part of that leadership and then I could relay whatever the coaches was trying to put into play. Okay, I like that. Do you feel like I also touch your patience and stuff too? Oh, most definitely. Patience teaches you to be aware of game situations. Because most players just play. They just go out and they just react to whatever action. And you have to have guys that can also see it, cause an action or a reaction, anticipate. And I was allowed to do all those things. When I was allowed to be, I could handle the ball pretty good. So they didn't tell me don't go through your legs or go behind your back. as long as you make the proper play. When I was playing catcher, I could throw the ball behind the runners. So in a catching position that the man is getting too far off of first base, my coaches allowed me to throw the ball back to the first base instead of just throwing it to the pitcher. So those things you learn how to anticipate, see angles, and then try to create some situations. Now, likewise, I made some bad throws that shouldn't have, that cost us runs. I made bad passes because I was trying to do too much uh as well as playing football, know, trying to throw the receiver open and throw the ball into the flat area and it's intercepted. But throwing it late, trying to be precise and it gets tipped and intercepted. So those are things you have to learn to play in the game. And it aided and helped me become a better player, helped me to uh be more aggressive, helped me to uh understand situations. And I try to teach that to our players today. And I think the biggest thing as far as coaching that I heard from you right then, when you took it upon yourself as an athlete to learn the game and put in the time, you gain that trust. And you know, what me and Tay say is a concept that longer leash to where what you did take accountability. Yeah, I'll make my mistakes, but I have way more pluses than minus. Yeah. Well, it helps with the confidence. And I know a couple of your questions on on on understanding situations. If if you don't believe in yourself, nobody else will. You know, and the flip side of that is, you know, your parents, all they want to believe you can do something and they tell you you can do something, but you actually have to go out there and make those plays and play in that game. And it's easy for mom and dad and uncle and, you know, teacher. tell you to go out there and fight that man that's six foot six, 300 pounds, and tell you you can beat him. You have to believe you can beat him. In most cases, you're not supposed to win that battle. But then you have those players that regardless of size, regardless of statue, they'll figure out a way to disrupt, cause problems, make plays. So it's easy for mom and dad to say it. When you have to go out there and actually participate against that big man. It's a whole different ball game. They can't save you. They can't save you. That's what we tell them all the time. Your mom and dad can cheer you on, but they ain't gotta make that play. They don't have to go up against that cat. Right. And so when you went to the university at Arkansas, what was very significant about that? uh It was quite different. um Back in San Angelo, I was the first uh black quarterback in my high school. And that was in 19... 81, 82. So we're talking about almost 50 years ago. And I was the first black quarterback there. uh And the mindset was, you know, we had been winning my entire career. So we had a new coach come in and coach Keeling, and he said, I'm going to play the best players. He put the best players in those best positions and we were successful again. Mind you, we didn't win the state championship, but we changed some thought processes and that came about because the city had already seen this group of guys playing. And I always want to go back and make sure I make it clear. I didn't get the opportunity because I was just the best in. There were players better than I was earlier. They just didn't have that opportunity to play that position. Okay. And some of my childhood heroes were guys I looked up to were better at playing that position or they didn't have the opportunity to play that position. until we had a different coaching style come in. And then I was allowed to in 81, 82. And it was difficult, but it wasn't hard. And as my coach would say, we're fighting more than just playing the game. There's more to this than just you playing. There's a lot of different stereotypes, attitudes, and things that he was fighting as well as I was fighting. But when it came about, it came about. chose the University of Arkansas and when the University of Arkansas chose me, I was unaware that they hadn't a starting black quarterback either. I didn't know they had a black quarterback until almost the very first game. I've been there eight weeks and didn't know. And that was Martin Lamon, who was also a Texas resident who went there in 76. ah And I think he played five plays when he and I talked, he played five plays and 77 and then he left. It was another eight or nine years before I got that opportunity. And it was different. didn't know. Teammates told me. I didn't know. Guys were asking, who are you from? Who are you? Et cetera. You know, when you first come in that first two weeks or three weeks before school in August. And they said, no, man, that ain't going to happen, man. We never had that. They're going to move you, man. They're going to move you. And I believed that until I walked into the room and saw the other guys. Then when I was in there with the other guys, I was like, if I can't play here, shoot, I shouldn't be playing ball. So you do whatever you have to to get your mind ready for that opportunity. So I tried to learn everything I could, as well as use my abilities and the talents that God had given me to figure out how to get on the field. But then once that happened, another challenge came about. And those other challenges are outside of the team and outside of the scope. never get used to being threatened or you never get used to people slashing your tires or egging your car. You never get used to people calling your phone, sending you letters ah because you're just trying to do something that's play a game and help your team. You never get used to that. You're not prepared for that. I wasn't prepared for it. But you know, I have some great brothers at the university that took me under their wing. They protected me. And in most times they were more afraid for me than they were of me because I wasn't raised to turn the other cheek. I wasn't raised to just accept stuff. And that was one of reasons my father didn't want me to go to Arkansas. He was really legitimately afraid that I wouldn't back down and would get hurt. But it didn't happen, know. I fought through the hatred, fought through the ignorance, fought through the team leadership and the team support. I got some great brothers. I can't wait to see them again in next three weeks. We're gonna all hang out again for about a week. So, and it's just the best thing that ever happened. It's the best thing that ever happened to me. So let me ask you this. You said there was a former black quarterback before you. Yes. Right. You said he played about five down. He played five plays. Yes. Okay. What about that or how did you stay? I mean because that's a lot to deal with when you talk about the examples of things you did with. I live too far to go back home. That was basically it. It was too far for me to travel. You know, like I said, I'm from West Texas and San Angelo. That's a long way to Fayetteville, Arkansas. And it wasn't as easy. I didn't have a car that first year or so. So you couldn't just jump up, get on a plane and fly. I didn't have that money. My parents were educators, you know, and there was still brothers and sisters in the house. So, uh you know, my mom and my grandma and my father all said don't go to school there. But there was an opportunity when they tell you can go play ball. and you sign your name and you have this challenge and they tell you that, you know, you can play quarterback. When everyone else is telling you, you're to play wide receiver, running back, whatever. I saw it as a challenge. So I didn't want to go back home as a failure. That's the last thing you want to do. And why did you come back home? Because they called me names or cause they were writing me letters. Cause my neighborhood wasn't going to take that. And my parents weren't, they were afraid for sure, but they weren't too afraid to let me go experience. And I was just knucklehead enough to say, hey, I can do this. I'm going to do this. Let's go play. Then when we found out the stakes, we hadn't won the conference. I get to play at home or in the state of Texas half the time. I get to see my family. You can handle it. School was easy. Reading, writing, arithmetic, that stuff was easy. Dealing with thought processes and bigotry and all that. That's a whole different ball game. That's a whole different mental aspect. that you have to find your space and that's through prayer, that's through people praying for you, that's being around good people, solid people. And like I said, I got some solid teammates. Some of the best guys in the world. And they provided that extra or that needed hug support to keep me in that battle. So this is just a fun question because a lot of kids like to pick, looking back, how different do you think it would have been if you played now compared to when you did play? Well, they don't have to deal with that. Parents don't have to deal with it today. know, every once in a while you get certain situations and people bring stuff up. Everything is not about race. Everything is not about ignorance, but it comes up. They don't have to deal with it. This was a daily deal. The first interview I gave in 1984, they asked me, I'm gonna be honest with you. said, what's it like being a quarterback? What's it like being a black quarterback? As if there is a difference. And how are the people treating you? That was the first question that I received from an Arkansas reporter. Do you remember? anything or know anything about Little Rock Nine. Now what does that have to do with football? but it was that much of an impact on the state that it became that kind of issue. And I have players today that they have no idea that I was the first black quarterback. Most of them don't know that I played college football. And so when they see me doing the basketball stuff, the two don't mix. They have no earthly idea what it's like to have that kind of. craziness coming at you, being booed and you winning. You know, you make a mistake, you throw an inception, or you don't get a first down, they're yelling out stuff at you. These young people will lose their mind today. They don't have the same growth patterns that we had, you know? And it's unfortunate, but you know, that's just a lot God gave me to deal with. And looking back, I'm glad I did. uh but it still doesn't, if I hit you in the nose, it's still gonna hurt. Saying I'm sorry don't mean that it's not gonna hurt. oh So some of the things that I had to deal with still hurt. Being absolutely recognized for having the most victories and they don't wanna recognize that because they have to recognize all the other stuff that went with it. I mean, we played in four consecutive bowl games. We won, my worst season was nine and three. You know, my university would love to have a nine and three now. We're 10 and two, 10 and two, nine and three, nine and three. So that being a part of something bigger than yourself, you know, for me and I'm looking back, I appreciate it. I still have the letters. Oh yes. Why? It keeps me grounded. It keeps me grounded. and I can share that with my grandkids. When you have an opportunity to do this, this is what it's about. There's a legacy here. The legacy is to go to college, get you a college degree. And sometimes things are not as easy as they seem, it's not as hard as it seems, but I wanted to know that you come from good start. Your grandparents, your great-grandparents were all college educated. And they had to go to schools where they couldn't go to school. They had to sit in those classrooms where they weren't welcome. So just understand that. And I keep it for myself. Every once in a while, I'll say every once in a while, I go back and read them. And I just shake my head going like, wow, just because I wanted to play football. It's amazing. Yeah. And then last question before we transition. I wanted to know you spoke on your teammates very highly. Yes, what about your coaches in the institution at the time? I play for some good coaches. And I think they may have been better men than coaches. I play for Ken Halfield. He didn't have to bring me over there. He took a chance on me. um He and I don't speak as much because there are some things that he and I still haven't worked through. And a lot of that working through, you I pray about it, but I don't forgive just as easily, you know. um But the same thing that was happening to me and the name they were calling me, they were calling him the same things. The only difference is he's 20 years older. He has to be able to handle it. And sometimes ah people handle things different. Stress is crazy. ah Fear is crazy. It makes you do certain things. And it made me resentful for a while. ah And, I can't speak on his behalf. So those are things he has to answer to and for. And yes, he and I still, I still respect him. Actually, I love the man. I appreciate what he did. But there's, know, you had them situations where you got to work and stuff. And I don't think he handles some of those situations well, but no one is trained to do that. I mean, those, when you, got to fight your own friends. your own alumni and they have a different thought process, know, no one knows what they do until you in that kind of situation. Do you feel like the way you mentally prepare for that battle ahead of time, he should have mentally prepared as well? Does that make sense? It makes sense, but you know, if you and I go through the same situation, who's to say that we're going to come out? the opposite on the same ends of the thought process. You know what I'm Right, you have a different point of reference. Every time, everything everyone does. So there are times when you can have no situation better than I can. Same situation, the response may be different, ah the conversation may be different, the outcome, but you would like to think you was on the same page. You would like to think they got your back. You would like to think. that they stood up. Sometimes I don't know. I don't know what happened behind closed doors. I know what happened in broad daylight and I never felt I got the same benefit of the doubt. Now, I never felt I got the same support. Um but you're looking through, I was looking through that looking at it through 18, 19, 20 year old eyes. When I look back through it as a 60 year old, it's different. It ain't much different, but I do have some empathy and some thought process on it now. Real quick, if you're listening to this and you're serious about growing, not just as an athlete, but mentally too, I've got something for you. I'm hosting the Mississippi Black Creators Podcast Summit this July, where creators, athletes, and storytellers come together to learn how to build platforms, grow their voice, and create real impact. Tickets go on sale May 1st, so grab them tickets oh on Eventbrite, and I have the link down below in the episode description. Also, if you've been tapped into Hoops and Headspace, make sure you check out Hoops and Headspace films. We got some real stories and documentaries on sports, culture, and mental health. And then check out Hoops and Headspace Academy, where we go deeper on mindset, leadership, and athlete development. Now, let's get back into it. What mental traits separate great leaders from just talented athletes? Preparation. preparation and you still got to make plays. I mean if you could jump, you know, 39 inches in there and they throw you an alley, ain't nothing you can do unless you can jump 39 inches and block the ball. I mean, talent is what sells. And you see that every day. We get talented guys every day get extra opportunities. But it's the solid people that keeps you found, keeps your foundation going. I need to know I can trust you in the crisis. That don't take talent. That takes understanding and work ethic and knowledge, et cetera. and how important is confidence? Unbelievable. If you believe you can do something and then you go out and do it and then you do it again and you do it again, what does that do for your thought process? I mean, let's look at it through a therapeutic process. ah It says if you can do something 21 days in a row, it becomes habit form. If you can do anything 21 days in a row, that's habit forming. Good, bad, thought process, dribbling the basketball, but you're doing something the same way every day and it's fundamentally sound, that's habit forming. Okay? In the drug treatment world, if we keep you in a treatment facility for 30 days, anybody can do 30 days, ain't nothing gonna change. Okay? We keep you there 60 days, you start to see a little transformation. If you keep somebody that 90 days, clean, sober, good feedback, relationship, you have an opportunity. The recidivism rate drops like 60 to 70 % because you have good foundational treatment, good foundational behavior making opportunities. It's the same with sports. It's the same if I play a musical instrument. If I'm solid and I'm doing something, and I'm doing it right every day, every day, every day. Then you start expanding a little bit. Then you start exploring a little bit. Then you can do something different. If you've taken a violin, now I can go three strings over instead of two strings over and still be, everything has that kind of foundation if you have 21 days. So in essence, the thought process is the more repetition you get, the better you can get at anything. If you have a great singer and you have someone teaching, they understand that. Your octaves get better. Your range can get better. You can hear your tonation better. You can hear how the room sounds with the acoustics. Then you have an opportunity when you understand the foundation. You have to be able to handle criticism and doubt. I mean, like I said earlier, mom and dad tell you beautiful. You may be beautiful to mom and dad. You may not be beautiful to everyone else. No. You have to be able to be coachable. You have to go through stuff. We don't want our kids going through any negative stuff now. Everything is good. Everybody wins a trophy or gets a certificate. And that's not the real world. The real world is competitive. The real world is getting out of your comfort zone and then finding it, finding that even keel. You're not too high, you're not too low. But we're in a world now where everybody's right all the time. Everyone gets the same plain time everyone gets, and that's not reality. You are preaching to me now. So many athletes struggle when their playing career ends. What was that transition like for you? Difficult. I would be lying to you if I said anything else. uh And I'm gonna come, let me put it into perspective, because I didn't understand or appreciate it. It just came natural. So. If you take a high school athlete and they're pretty good, they're decent. They get a chance to go play college ball. Okay. And then they go play college ball and then they play a little bit, don't play much, but then the last two years they get a chance and people come to them to do interviews. You go on shows, then you go play an all star game. And then all of sudden that's taken away from me. Opportunity, energy, injury, et cetera. Competition. You have to have something to... to fall back on, okay? If I put myself in that position, I didn't understand playing high school ball, I just had fun. I just wanted to have fun and have fun and wanted to win the state championship. That was my only goal. Well, we got beat, so we didn't win the state championship. I was one of 17 guys on the team that got a chance to go play college ball off my team, okay? I go to Arkansas, I'm a freshman and I'm playing as a freshman. I didn't have much dues. was second string as a freshman, got a chance to play in seven of the 12 games. I didn't understand the responsibility oh of what that opportunity presented. Then all of a sudden, boom, now I'm the starting quarterback. Now I'm starting quarterback for not one year, but two years. I'm on every national news, every ESPN, CBS, playing in ball game. My next year, my senior year. Boom, same thing, everything. And then you get hurt. And not to say I was good enough, but I get hurt. Don't get drafted, don't go as a free agent. All that stuff changes. Now, you you don't have all those same opportunities. Not everyone's walking on one to shake your hand anymore. That part of your life is done. So what do you do? Where do you go? I had great parents, great grandparents, like I said, all college educated. They always say, get your college education. They can't take that away from you. So then I had a college education, something I could fall back on. something I can go find a job. Then I just had to find a job that fit that personality and that training. Most of our young people don't have that. I would say 85 % of our young people don't have it. Because it's not about education anymore. It hasn't been about education in 30 years. I'll be honest with you. And now money's involved? Oh yes. It was involved then. Money was involved then. They just didn't want to be honest about it. I played in the Southwest Conference. It was the best conference at the time. There's no longer a Southwest Conference. Why? Do you know why? No. It's all about money. The conference is disbanded because everyone in the conference was cheating. SMU got the death penalty, TCU, and all of them was on some form of probation. Baylor, Texas, everyone. So then the conferences fell apart. We had the big 12 now because of the big, the Southwest Conference falling apart. And it was all about money. It was all about money, buying players, cheating, all that stuff. um You spent decades working with students and families. How did your athletic background influence the way you mentor those players? You pick and choose the things you do good and you apply things you see from other coaches, other administrators, and you apply it. The same thing that happened with me. ah I pay it forward. I use a lot of things. Well, I'd say better this way. I love my dad. My dad was a very, very special man. Did a lot of great things. But there's something that my dad did that I didn't like or I didn't understand or I didn't comprehend. So all the good things he did. guess what I would try to do? I would emulate that. I would try to learn, teach, abide, follow, et cetera. And the things that he didn't do well that I didn't think he did well, through a kid's eyes, things that turned me off, things that made me not as calm, things that, like a dad is supposed to. He's raising you so you can deal with life. Those things he didn't do well, I tried to eliminate. Okay? uh And then my mom turns around and say, yeah, just like your dad, but it is what it is. And you do that with your coaching style and how there are some guys that can take hard, tough coaching. There's some kids that can't. There are some kids that need a shoulder. There's some that they just need an opportunity. There are some that want their mentorship and ask questions. And then there are those kids that wanna do everything on their own. So you take all those and you try to apply to the best of your ability or whatever style or whatever group of kids that come in. I don't believe kids have changed. I think parenting has changed. I think situations have changed that we don't want our kids to go through situations. We just wanna give them the pony. We don't want them to have to earn the right to learn how to take care of the house, the chores and stuff. We just want to give it to them and then someone else will take care of it. So they don't fail. They don't comprehend or understand criticism. They think that that's being, uh you hurting their feelings. Well, shucks, that guy across the court's gonna hurt your feelings too. You know, that's his goal. That's his job. And so we have to do a better job with that. I put that more on parents than I do on kids. I love that answer. What are some of the biggest mental or emotional challenges that you feel like athletes face today? Social media. And if we had social media when I was around, I'd been in trouble too. I get in trouble every day with my wife because I sit there and watch this stuff go through that. And it's a another form of distraction. And mentally, they put everything they have on social media, every feeling, every thought, every emotion, and they look to that as a guide. And so mentally they don't have to work through a lot of things. They're not tough enough. And they're not tough enough because we've made it, like parents are supposed to make it easy for their kids. But it's been, I think, negatively affecting them because not everyone want them to be your friend. and they think everyone's their friend. Not everyone has your best interest at heart. And we try to tell them that they do. So they go about it. And then it gets uh misdirected. gets put in a situation where it doesn't help. And then that's what they turn to instead of turning to mom and dad. But then mom and dad have to be ready for that also. They gotta do the hard, they gotta say no. They gotta say, hey, this, this, this instead of saying, okay, go ahead and do it. Okay, just launch you out of my hair as long as you quiet over in the corner. Then you gotta go to school and they can't sit in the corner and they can't sit. It has an effect and it rolls downhill, it really does. Yeah. And as far as the social media, I do wanna ask you this. Earlier when you spoke you said that the kids didn't have to deal with now the scrutiny and stuff the way you did when you played. If they were to argue that they do, but in a different manner through social media, would you agree or disagree? I would agree because like I said, I didn't grow up on social media like that. So I'm learning with them right now. I know how it can, it wreaks havoc. I can just say that I know how it wreaks havoc. But that's still social media. You can turn the social media off. What you can't turn off is someone calling you names. doing stuff to you, you know, the physical, we used to tell you that sticks and stones won't break your bones, but words will never hurt you. Yeah, words hurt worse than sticks and stones. The sticks and stones are evident right then. But the words cut. Words are deep. And when you hear those kinds of words and it's negativity and it's constant negativity, they start to believe that. The bruises will heal. Okay? But you know, some of those cuts from words and that's why you try to choose your words on how you talk to the people, young folks, because they don't forget the words. The part that you said right there that hit me the hardest, when you said that the sticks and stones are apparent and immediate. Can you expand on that? Do you feel like what you're saying is that the stuff, the words mentally affect you later or like, you harder later? They stay with you. I mean, if you get a bloody nose or a busted lip in time that the visibility of the nose and the lip and the cuts will heal. They will heal. But sometimes words cut. way deeper and you don't see that healing process and they may not overcome that because they can keep going back to that. You won't see the cut and all the busted lip or the broke nose. Alright, but that that that word that sharpness right there and you telling someone they sorry they can't they know good. Those things resonate and we never see that. but then that goes into the mental aspect of it. Cause that's how they see themselves. And they believe that person, that's what they will take away from. Yeah, tightmint's not a one. Oh my God. So what are some ways athletes can protect their mental health while competing at a high level? It would be better if we as coaches had that time to put in. We need to have some some kind of roundtable, some watch over. You know, it's not an exercise, but, you know, make sure that we spend quality time together to get to know what's going on. At the end of the day, it's still a game. At the end of the day, it's still a game. And I know we'll get to this at the end. When you read my books, it's still a game. It's the game of life. It's the game of opportunity, being prepared for that opportunity. And then if you reach it and you get that, that, that highs or the high, that, that victory that you're trying to get to, then you still got another day after it. It's another game to be played and that's life. And so we, when you put the challenge in the competition and to its perspective, ah you find that it goes deeper than that. It's bigger than that. It's bigger than just a game. It's making good young men, sharing men what it's like when you don't succeed and how you deal with it. It shows them how we've been able to provide, being dedicated to something bigger than yourself, sacrificing some of your skills and your abilities so that the whole group can win. Those are things we try to teach. and try to share and put on the table because we want them to be good dads. We want them to be better brothers. We want them to be better fathers. And that's what we try to teach. And that's what's always been taught to me. What role does belief uh play in building a successful team culture? Everyone has a goal, but not everyone believes in that goal. You know what So you gotta believe in something. And sometimes the belief you put out there is achievable. Okay? But everyone, know, when you have low standards, okay, that's... We probably put a belief system that is high, that makes them have to work hard, that makes them have to see things through a different lens. And then you gotta believe that. I have to believe I'm the best player on the floor. or have to believe I can beat that player. I have to believe I can cover him. I have to believe I can strike him out with my skillset. I don't have to be the fastest. It doesn't have to curve the most, but I got to believe I can get that ball past that batter. And if I don't believe that, boom, now you got to deal with the consequence. It could be a regular single hit. It could be a home run. How does that affect me on that next pitch? So it's still a game within a game within a game. And then we put all those perspectives into a thought process. right, you got to believe you can do it. What are your skill sets? How can we get it done? High, low, inside, outside. Then you teach them how to play the game. And it's the same in basketball. We try to teach not everyone six, seven. You you have more people that are five, 10, five, 11 than you do six, seven, six, eight. But we've had some guys that are six foot six, no, six, one, six, two, though. tougher, more skillful than the guy that's six, seven, six, eight. And I can't tell him don't challenge it because that's a part of the game. And then they use their skillset. I'm not as tall, but I'm quick. I don't know. I jump higher or he does whatever it is. They have to learn how to play that game and believe they can get whatever task needs to be done. that crosses all sports is understanding comprehension of your skillset in the game. But you got to believe in something before you. just go out there. If you don't have a game plan every day or some kind of belief system, then you just aimlessly out there. And what lessons from sports, like some main lessons from sports that you took into life after sports? Being accountable, one that we use in basketball all the time is hard work pays off. That doesn't mean you're gonna win. Doesn't mean you're gonna win the championship. But if you putting in the work and you believe in trusting that work process, you have a chance. So being accountable is number one. I'm accountable every day. I make myself accountable. I was taught that at a young age and I taught it to my children. I'm trying to teach it to my grandchildren. You are responsible for what happens. I understand there are circumstances and situations, but ultimately you are responsible and you're gonna have to deal with it. If you get that whooping, you gotta deal with that whooping. That's just part of it. And then how do you respond after it? So I try to teach it. So if we do the thing you're supposed to do, you know, nine times out of 10 things work out. Then you have emotions, you have situations, have circumstances beyond your control. How do you handle those things within the confines of whatever else is going on? And then last one we got on here. For young athletes listening, what advice would you give them if they feel doubted or overlooked? Keep the grind. Just go grind. But listen, I want them also to understand that they're in a small, they're in a big ocean coming from a small pool. Okay. Our parents are raising their kids that everyone's gonna go to the NBA. No. Or everyone's gonna go to the NFL. No. Or everyone's gonna go to college. Let's take that one for instance. Because the numbers get smaller as we continue to grow. So what's 2 % go to college and play ball? So I mean, 98 % are not playing ball. You have to be able to do something else. So 2 % get a chance to play college and the 2 % only 1 % gets a chance to play pro ball. And then you have to do all those other things that help you out. You gotta be good, you gotta be skilled, you gotta be coachable, you gotta be available, you gotta be all these other things. You have to be able to read and write, I gotta be able to trust you, I gotta be able to do all these things that just being a regular person and that's not knocking down people that don't play. I'm just putting it into a perspective. that everyone else, everyday lay person have to do. I gotta trust you to go do your job. I gotta trust you at your job to do whatever that boss has for you to do. And that's what sports teaches you. But not everyone's gonna get a chance to play college ball. And a smaller few get a chance to play pro ball. What are you gonna do with your life? Most definitely. And it's big because like you said, the main thing is parents have to be transparent with their kids. You know, that's the biggest thing. And it's not to say you're not gonna dream, but you're telling realistically, if that's a dream, this is what you have to do. And statistically, these are the numbers. You know? It's not the wrong with dreaming. I dream. I tell my boys every day, they don't dream big enough. I come from an upper middle class community where we play in Plano East, in the city of Plano. You gotta dream bigger. You have to dream bigger than your mom and dad's house to where you live. These kids live where I work and who I deal with, trying to get them to play ball when they go to the Hamptons on vacation. I can't compete with that. But when you playing a game, we gotta find ways to get you to dig deeper than driving that Bronco, driving that Hummer. because your mom and dad's wealth can't save you in this. Your mom and dad's experience in the business world has nothing to do with you going against this cat across the aisle from you. So it's amazing and it's not as hard as you think, but it's hard when they come, what's the saying? It's hard to feed somebody when they fat. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not talking about the fat being a body. I'm talking about when you got everything in your life you could ever The greediness. How can I get you to want to go out there and fight hard for this guy? Those are the things that a lot of our kids are not, they don't comprehend. Cause they can just quit and go to another school, or go play on another team, or go to another tournament. Dude, it's going to run out at some point in time. So where's that work at that's going to get you? Will the mom and dad continue to give you this stuff? How do you develop your own work ethic? And that's what we fight on a regular basis. Well, Coach Thomas, I have enjoyed you and your isms that you gave today. Now, for your talk, your talk right here at the end, this one, the first one's introductory. Yes. The second talk, your talk, we give our guests the opportunity to give themselves flowers. So this is where you talk about everything that you've done, everything that you're doing and everything that you plan to do. So go ahead and talk your talk. Talk my talk. Well, it's very, that's not what I do. I don't talk about myself much, um but I'm gonna give a little shout out and a little praise here. ah I am a two time award winning author, something I never thought I would ever do. My first book was No Doubt in Thomas, which we talked about a little bit. uh Hawk Whisper, my Arkansas memory. It chronicles my four years as the first black starting quarterback at the University of Arkansas. um and some of those trials and tribulations. My second book is, Hashtag Making Believers. And I released that in October. It's the journey of 14 players and five coaches and the community of Plano East Senior High, and us winning our first UIL 6A State Championship in basketball. 40 and 0, we ended up in 40 and 0 state of Texas. We ended up ranked two or three nationally at a public high school. And it shared that journey with those guys. Both books are as of today. No Doubtting Thomas is a five time award winning book. And Hashtag Making Believers now is a six time as of today. And it's also entered into two more contests uh later this month. But I'm also speaking with screenwriters, ah producers that are thinking about trying to get the story out there on the screen. ah But that's not the best. I'm writing a third book. I started here in about six months. It's on my father's state championship team in 1950 and talking about those 26 men and what they did in San Angelo, Texas during segregation and their contribution to not only San Angelo, but the world. And I think our young players, our young black players, our young communities need to see that and read about that. uh That's what I'm trying to do. Just get it out there, get people to come. My own website is gregthomasconnect.com. You can go there. The books are all available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, uh IngramSpark. It's worldwide now. I just did that the other day. uh And people are reading it. That's pretty cool too. Let's just say that. My wife found a website and shared it with me and people are buying the book in Europe. Europe. And yet I did a show yesterday and a gentleman, I spoke with people from Kenya talking about the hashtag making believers from Kenya. So the stories are out there. Those are some of the things that the grind that I'm trying to do as I wind down my... uh my career in education. So I can spend more time with my beautiful wife, Rebecca and our seven kids and our 10 grandchildren right now. And I give props to her because she's allowing me to do a lot of this stuff. And she supports every way possible and that's needed. I want to support her. She quills and she does a beautiful job there and I want to support that. But for me, that's what I try to do. Yeah. Man, like I said, we appreciate it. And like you said, you have a great testimony that I think is going to be something very important for the fans that we have. And like he said, y'all need to go get the books. Jada's going to get the books because I'm after this interview, I'm way more interested. Yes. And y'all make sure I read those. But we definitely appreciate you taking up the time to thank you, man. I appreciate coming on. I'll you, said missed him. Hopefully we can catch up in the future. Most definitely. All right. This is Hoops and Headspace, the podcast where mental health and sports intersect. I'm your host, Jada, and we're outta here. Hey man, if this episode helped you, the biggest thing you can do is share it with another athlete who needs it. Make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss future episodes on mental health, mindset, and life beyond the game. And if you're ready to take things deeper, tap into everything we're built in. There's Hoops and Headspace Films, there's Hoops and Headspace the Podcast, and there's Hoops and Headspace the Academy. This is bigger than sports. It's about who you become through it. I'll see you in the next episode.